The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. Seller: cma959. The performance of cartridges paled in comparison to the .32 Remington (170gr bullet at 2,180fps for 1,794 ft-lbs of energy) and .35 Remington (200gr bullet at 2,080fps for 1,922ft-lbs of energy) cartridges Remington introduced with their new autoloading rifle, the Remington Model 8. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester ammo rounds. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. Buy 3, however, or any 3 non gun non ammo items, and shipping is Free on the entire order. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. I can remember reading that years ago in hunting magazines that the Model 1910 was popular in Alaska, that even Barnes Bullets made .406 bullets for reloading the 401 WSL. The Model 1907 enjoyed a long production run of over 51 years and Winchester finally stopped manufacturing it in 1958. . These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . However, as a bottleneck cartridge, the .30-30 has a slight advantage at longer ranges. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. They also balance rather far forward due to the very heavy breechblock extension that looks like an operating rod under the barrel. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. They are still around, although finding a pristine example will be tough. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. 26" barrels with F A near flawless vintage Voere Nato Imperial control round feed Mauser bolt action made in Austria. and the .30-30 with 781 ft. lbs. Using basically the same action, they introduced the Winchester Model 1910 semi-automatic rifle along with the .401 Winchester Self Loading (.401WSL) in the spring of 1910. During the early 1900s, the folks atWinchester learned that their main competitor, Remington, was working on a centerfire autoloading rifle suitable for hunting big game. with a similar 180-grain bullet. I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. Both cartridges use an unusual bullet diameter (.352 and .406 respectively), but its still possible to find soft point, FMJ, or cast lead bullets to use for reloading. Another comparison is a .357 Magnum cartridge fired from an 18" rifle barrel, which has a muzzle velocity range from about 1,7182,092ft/s (524638m/s) with energies at 7201,215ftlbf (9761,647J) for a 110gr (7.1g) bullet at the low end and a 125gr (8.1g) bullet on the high end.[11]. Federal only offers two bullet weights for the Legend (160 grain and 180 grain). The trouble is, they didnt sell. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. Every competition has a winner, but the truth is, youre unlikely to notice much difference from the whitetail stand. Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Flintlock Misc, Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Matchlock/Wheellock Misc, Century Arms International (CAI) - Rifles, Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Rifles (perc), Winchester Rifles - Modern Bolt/Auto/Single, Winchester Rifles - Pre-1899 Bolt/Single Shot, Century Arms International (CAI) - Pistols, Colt Automatic Pistols (.25, .32, & .380 cal), Colt Single Action Revolvers - Modern (22 Cal. Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. This is the Winchester 61 chambered in .22LR Long Rifle with a blued metal with a length of 23 1/2in. The velocity and energy figures in this table are taken from various sources including the Federal, Remington, Weatherby and Winchester ammunition guides and the 9th Edition of the book Cartridges of the World by Frank C. Barnes and edited by M.L. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. He killed a large 4x4 buck that day. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. If that's what floats your boat. If you had to pick the sexiest cartridges of the last decade, youd run through quite a few before you hit the .270 Winchester or .243 Winchester. Its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it. This was about as powerful as the original .30-30 Winchester load of a 160 grain bullet at 1,970 feet per second (1,379 ft-lbs of energy) and quite a bit more powerful than a .357 Magnum load. This cartridge was different from, but looked similar to, standard .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle cartridges. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "self-loading"). They would probably still be around today. You might already know this. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. It puts down Whitetail deer and wild hogs quite nicely. If the .35 Rem. Common types used by the military with the carbine include: The .30 Carbine was the basis for Melvin M. Johnson's .22 Spitfire (5.7x33mm), necking the .30 Carbine's case down to a .22 caliber bullet. The M2 carbine was introduced late in World War II with a selective-fire switch allowing optional fully automatic fire at a rather high rate (850900 rpm) and a 30-round magazine. I have all the calibers but short the 401 s and the 22 autos ,can you reload or sell a dox of each. And with Winchester, Ruger, Mossberg and other companies making bolt action rifle in 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster, maybe they could make a run of rifles in 351 WSL and 401 WSL too., with 5 and 10 round magazines. But do you know the real-world differences between a standard cartridge and a Weatherby Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. the Henry's seem to be very solid and the action is danged smooth. As commercially successful as the Winchester Model 1907 and the .351 Winchester Self-Loading were, Winchester was still not quite satisfied. *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. Perhaps thats why it has survived. ANTIQUE MADE IN 1891. While similar to the M1 carbine, it lacked the stock, thereby making it a handgun. Worked on one the other day for a young kid. Youre also more likely to find a rifle in .30-30, especially in the used market. Which cartridge comes out on top in this battle of old school vs. new? Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. It is built on an aluminum- NO NYC, CT buyers please send us FFL or State Permit. At the same time though, the Remington Model 8 also kicks a lot more than you would expect considering the rather mild calibers they were chambered for. For the .30-30, however, the company offers multiple 150- and 170-grain loads as well as a 125-grain jacketed hollow point and a 170-grain Nosler partition that the company bills as ideal for elk. The M1 and M2 carbines continued in service during the Korean War. necked up to .35 caliber. That seems to happen a bunch to the rifles that had an active life! The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. He can be reached via email at [emailprotected], being one of the very first* intermediate calibers. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Its overall length was 35.6 inches; it weighed 5.2 pounds, had a barrel length of 18 . from a 20-inch barrel. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. The Plainfield Machine Company (later taken over by Iver Johnson's Arms) sold a sporting rifle copy of the M1 carbine chambered for this cartridge but only about 500 were made. At first, Winchester was tasked with developing the cartridge but did not submit a carbine design. This listing is for ONE Magazine. hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchester's now . It was predictable that the .356 Win. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? The .30-30 offers more power with certain loads, better long-range performance, and soft recoil. Winchester sold both soft point and FMJ ammunition for the .351 SL cartridge over the years. The .30 Carbine is so weird in part because its descended from an innovative and influential but little-known family of rounds developed by Winchester in the early 1900s. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. This ammunition is often loaded to lower velocities in consideration of older firearms which have not been properly maintained, and large differences are seen over the chronograph relative to vintage .351 SL ammunition. .30-.30 caliber In excellent used condition. We determine a cartridges shootability by considering its cost, availability, and recoil energy. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. The .30 Carbine (7.6233mm) is a rimless carbine/rifle cartridge used in the M1 carbine introduced in the 1940s. After reading about the Winchester self loaders, I decided to look online to get more information and see what I could find out, It seems like most writers complain about the Winchester self loaders action, but this was a new product. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. Would certainly make things easier, from a tooling standpoint. This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 1873 MUSKET 44-40 30. The Legend has more trouble fighting wind and gravity. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. Oddly, its bullet diameter is truly .351-inch instead of the .358-inch normally associated with rounds such as .35 Whelen, .35 Winchester or .35 Remington. A 10 mph crosswind will move the bullet 8.9 inches and 21.6 inches at those distances. Please try a new zip code and search again. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). I would like some information if possible on approximate value if in good usable condition. Show Only Non-Guns. Its safe to say that your local sporting goods store is more likely to stock the .30-30 Winchester than the .350 Legend. Another article, said at first Winchester wanted to use the 32 WSL for WW2, but military brass wanted 30 caliber, so Winchester designed the 30 Carbine, still popular today. lbs., which is lower than normal .223 hunting and varmint loads. Gun #: 943226118 . . Overall, the .30 Carbine is a round that is historically important, but not terribly ballistically relevant to the modern discussion of personal defense weapon ammunition. Mag. 110 grain .30 Carbine fired from the M-1: Remington Green/White: 1976 fps. Manufacturer Smith & WessonbrbrModel Model 351 PDbrbrSKU 106228brbrCaliber .22 MagnumbrbrBarrel 1.875 Stainless SteelbrbrCylinder Aluminum AlloybrbrOverall L Smith & Wesson 103351 Model 351 Classic 22 Mag 7rd 1.88" Black Stainless Steel Barrel Matte Black Aluminum Cylinder & Frame with Black Polymer Grip & No Internal Lock MFR # 103351 (103351) New Smith & Wesson Model 351 Classic chambered in 22 Mag. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. Yeah. you can refer to it as "self loading" instead of semi auto and still have that "special feeling". The 357 Magnum fired a 158 gr SP at 1240 fps. in the Big Bore Model 94. WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. Check out GunBroker. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. Why the .35 Rem. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win.,. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. NICE BRIGHT BORE. Itsnodawayitustabe Registered Joined Apr 12, 2016 I believe it never will. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. The .32 Self-Loading fired a 165 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (708 ft-lbs of energy) and the .35 Self-Loading fired a 180 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (772 ft-lbs of energy). offered the performance level of the .358 Win. 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 I have been able to get one of each of the calibers ( models) and without too much trouble or expense. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. to achieve its potential. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. In both cases, the recoil is the result of the action types used on these early autoloaders. was introduced in 1955. A postwar U.S. Army evaluation reported that "[t]here are practically no data bearing on the accuracy of the carbine at ranges in excess of 50 yards. The work must have been done in the tool shed, but the rifle was a shooter. McPherson. from a 20" barrel.
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